Sharpen thine knives and ready thine hammer, its time for another edition of EpicBattleCry! In this week’s skirmish, we check out the Just Cause 2 demo, new Mass Effect 2 DLC, a Batman: The Brave and the Bold game headed to Nintendo consoles, and hope that Alpha Protocol finally has a firm release date.
First up in the main course, we run down the details from last week’s Nintendo Media Summit and get ready for big N to bring the pain in the first half of the year. Next up, we examine how the details of how the launch day DLC for Battlefield: Bad Company 2, may just be the thing to drive down GameStop’s prices.
The Battle Cry of the Week goes to Neo Geo‘s recent birthday (and King of Fighters XIII), Joe Danger, Transformers: War for Cybertron, and calls on game publishers to think about creating their own game console.
Got a comment on this week’s skirmish? Sound off below! If you’d like to submit a Battle Cry, click here! Stay sharp.
-iPod compatible mp4 download-
It’s 3am here in Germany and I’m still awake to watch the show. It’s THAT good.
+1 Held… +1
its minus one hour here than there, but its late and i should be sleeping, but i couldnt resist to see it NOW
why dont games have more than one price point? 15 for half the sp; you like it pay another 15. you decided you want the sp or the mp spend 30. both is 60, and if you want all future dlc 80-110 depending on the support it’ll be recieving. it think its smart and also f’s with the used market business bc how do they resell that? if someone bought a game for 15 they sell it for 10? sounds awesome to me.
sorry i dont have an ebc, but i did see the crazies with some friends. go see it guys! definitely not a crappy remake.
I think you totally missed the point on the hate of video-game retailers. I pre-order through Gamestop (a large reason is the pre order bonus) but you can’t fault only gamestop for that as other companies have pre-orders as well. If it’s not gamebreaking then I’m ok with it. The anger and outright loathe that I have of gamestop, is their used game buying policy. I don’t generally buy used games, if I want a game I’ll pre-order or buy a new copy; I just don’t trust used games. However, I do trade in my used games as that’s the only market/place accessible besides online and having to mail your games someplace. Gamestop and stores like it have this assinign trade value of buying used games for like 1/4 or 1/8 of what their value is new, and then putting them back on the shelf for like $10 off. I’m not kidding I actually watched an employee take my trade in game (new value at $54.99), give me about $10-$15 bucks for it, and then put it on the shelf for $49.99. I mean right in front of my face! I understand that they have to make money as well, but at least give 1/2 the value of the game; I only had it a week! The feeling of walking out of that store is ecquivacal to being f*@$%# by an ELEPHANT without any lube!
PS sorry for the long rant, just wanted to clarify all the Gamestop like companies hate!
I love this show, oh and I hate buying new games at gamestop, I don’t know why they take the disk out of the box. damn!!
lol i can’t wait till next week when one of you guys bash sony for the ps3 phat bug, they deserve it.
On a side note: does anyone think that rocksteady could finally be the first to make a good superman game ( i know they’re busy with the arkham asylum franchise, but afterwards) if they’re given the chance?
I just wanted to state something:
LEGALLY speaking, any kind of software is actually a service, not a property of anyone, that’s why companies get to license them however they feel like doing it… so they can do whatever they want since you can’t get that sevice without agreeng with the End User License Agreements attached.
that said, I don’t think it’s THAT wrong to do this “unlock only when new” and whatever IF it’s tied to an account or person and NOT a piece of hardware; since hardware can fail and one might replace it with new hardware eventually (sounds like a stupid thing to point out, but it’s actually pretty important).
My battle cry goes out to the used game market and gamestop/ebgames and forums/buy&sell sites like craigslist,kijiji & redflagdeals.com (In Canada)
I used to be a reliable Gamestop customer for a while both using their trade in system as well as well as buying used games. Until i was around 15 and had avid access to the internet i was forced to buy games from Gamestop to get games on the cheap but with the rise on gaming forums i found websites that allowed gamers alike to come together and trade and sell their games for minimal profit from what Gamestop or other used game stores sell it for. This sometimes even happens to new releases on these forums. For example, an avid forum that i belong to (redflagdeals.com) you can usually find brand new games that are not even open for less than retail. (If Gamestop sells it fgor 59.99 + tax, sometimes you can find X game for 50/45) I think this is a great way for gamers to speak with their dollars and not buy in to the BS Gamestop model about giving you 15 bucks for a game that is 3 weeks old! You can go on these types of websites like Craigslist or Kijiji and get a bigger profit for themselves that can be used to put back into the games industry instead giving profits to Gamespot to constantly screwing us the consumer into buying used games 5 bucks off the “new game” price!
I voted for the Sonic The Hedgehog, even that I played E.T and Pac-Man back in the day.
Here’s my reason not for E.T., I was so young gamer that I wasn’t aware of game rules or WTF was great in a game or not. Until I saw Ms. Pac-man on the Atari that I was understanding WTF I was playing and what gameplay meant in a gaming stand point.
Hell, I used to like Cristal Castle in the Atari and I never knew it was a Arcade until the late 90′s. Understanding rules and gameplay on games was really hard until you where more mature and logical about it. Now this days less young, entry gamers are more in trouble with this.
Amazing episode this week guys, I really liked the discussion about Gamestop and other types of revenue source for publishers.
The tough part to digest is that now we (as gamers) don;t really know who is screwing us harder, the retail industry and their “used games” programs or the publishers with their “unlocking codes”.
I shop for used games at retail stores sometimes but I never buy a used copy that isn’t at least 20-30 Dollars less than the regular price. If I did, then as all you said, I might as well buy a new copy, because $5 bucks is just a very insignificant amount.
Cheers axe heads! I love you BattleAxeMasters!
hey guys.. i think there was a little confusion when brent was talking about “owning” the product. there are certain things owning a product permits as well as things its doesn’t. It permits you to sell, trade, or lend your game however you wish, but you just can’t mass reproduce and make profit off the parent company… so that’s where i think as long as your don’t violate the copyright laws of that item, you can do whatever you want, and 60 bucks is what you pay to do whatever you want with the game EXCEPT the copying and selling and all that.
oh yea, WTF didn’t you guys address that kick ass GOW3 footage shown… i listen to a few podcasts and since its come out nobody is talking about that epicness we all saw on gttv… make it happen lol
awesome episode guys, and i hope they do release a demo for alpha protocol before release, i’m not completely sold on this one like i am for red dead redemption. they need to release a tutorial / training mission type demo for it, just to see the gameplay and interface in action.
i love playing used games and i really have a big collection of some all time best used nintendo games..
Very good discussion, but its so sad to see that Daniel Kayser is such a capitalistic corporate whore… and its very relieving that Brent can still see things for what they are and is not defending actions of greedy corporations. But you’re right, people who buy used games for 5 Dollars or Euro less are pretty stupid, especially since you can get nearly every game even cheaper on Ebay.
Really good episode I particularly enjoyed the debate about the 2nd hand market.
I rarely buy 2nd hand, normally I will rent or buy new, but I do trade in my games to Game in the UK or sell or swap them to friends. I see nothing wrong with this and like Brent I’m pretty concerned about the way Publishers are trying to change games from products into services.
The 2nd hand market only exists because the RRP is so damned high. People rarely buy used DVDs and the reason is that DVDs are pretty cheap to buy new. If the Games were made cheaper, perhaps Publishers would kill off the 2nd hand market share and even make more money.
It’s a risk worth taking in my view.
I take issue with what DK said about Gamestop. I don’t even live in America, but GAME over here in the UK does the same thing. The problem with what you said is that the developers are NOT going to get a notably bigger slice of pie, what will actually happen is that the bastards will offer you £5 or $10 lass for your brand new game to trade in, and sell it for less. This reduction will not in any way affect their profit margins it will only hurt gamers who want to play multiple games for their £40/$60.
Brent is entirly right. The idea when you buy something is, at least dutch law, that you own it, and that you are entitled to do what you want with it. You see in no other media that you arent the owner of it. if you buy a dvd, you own it, buy a book, same thing. Those license agreements that you click on with a PC game is also showing how your ownership is pulled out of it.
I don’t get it …
it’s OK for EA to take a swing at 2nd hand sales but it’s OK for the same EA to make exclusive DLC deals with the same 2nd hand seller?
how does does it benefit gamers?
I love this show, but I really don’t like how the Twitter-live-feed to the right makes the video pause for every update (the audio does continue though) .. so it’s a choppy experience :/
But hey, worst case scenario: I’ll catch the show over at Gametrailers.
Keep up the good work guys!
It’s not just gamestop but game rentals as well. Gamefly Blockbuster. I never buy used games at Gamestop but I do rent games.
It just seems money hungry to have content thats on the disk locked. I will probly fork over the cash but jessh it’s something I’m going to have to think about and make a stand some day. I don’t have the cash at the moment to buy the game.
Don’t get me wrong I support the Devs and all but…… this could get out of hand, why not just lock half the game out?
I am totally behind Brent and Daniel on this BattleCry. Just to take the black and white interpretation of the law, when you purchase a piece of digital media, be it physical or not, it is yours to do with what you see fit. The only thing you cannot do is to make a copy for yourself and then sell the original(or vice versa). Once you buy that game, IT IS YOURS. You can play it, you can use it as a coaster, keep the cat/dog entertained, whatever. If you wanna sell it to somebody else, that’s a-OK as long as you don’t keep a copy for yourself. And just to clarify some things about GameStop, I’ll let you in on a secret as to why most people buy used games when they’re only 5 dollars cheaper: GameStop’s RETURN POLICY. If you buy a new game, GameStop(and everyone else’s) policy is you cannot return it except for an identical copy. But if you buy it used, and you hate it, you’ve got 7 days to bring it back and get either another game or your money back. And some people don’t even bother to use their codes on new games before they trade them in, so you could get a game for 5 bucks less with everything you get for a new copy.
And while I do not agree with GameStop’s policies on quite a few things, I really feel GameStop is the best thing for me. First, I can get older games at a decent price. Most games kinda hit bottom at 20 bucks, but the used ones keep dropping, so I can get a game I liked, but didn’t love enought to drop 60 bucks on it. Second, as far as I know, GameStop is the only retailer that has a pay-as-you-go pre-order system. Now, I don’t make a whole lot of money, so when a new game comes out, I can’t just drop 60 dollars on it. I like being able to put 5 dollars per paycheck on a game so that when it does come out, I’m able to just finish paying it off and go on my way. I don’t have to worry about keep monitoring my bank account, keep bringing it over on my checkbook, I just pay the 5 dollars and it’s done.
Not really a big deal for me, but perhaps for some. I noticed at 4:57 no bleeping on DK? Sounded like one of the words you guys usually do that for. Just asking.
This battle cry is a mixture between skirmish 64 and skirmish 65. When you guys were talking about how gaming companies are trying to release their games more in a service base from a property base. An idea dawned on me at that very moment. I know some will disagree with this idea but for gaming companies trying to get into the micro transaction gaming market to make their games into a service, they should do the following. Now imagine paying for a service on X box live or PSN that embodies a channel for a company like EA. When you subscribe to these channels you pay a monthly fee of 30 to 50 dollars a month to be able to have access to all of the EA brand games. For new blockbuster games say like a Call Of Duty game, they can get access to this game on release date by paying an extra fee on the channel (30 bucks to play Call Of Duty on release date). After a month or two the game will then be in free access for those who are subscribed in the channel. This idea will not only solve game companies problem in making more money with subscriptions and making used games obsolete. It will give gaming companies more incentive to develop games faster and hopefully create new I.P’s in the long run in order to cash in on the release date fees.
WHERES MY GOG ACTION AT BIACHES!!!! ;p
I think you all totally missed the point in your discussion on new-bought-only content.
The Game Industry WANTS used games at high prices. This closes the gap between new and used games and gives people more reason to buy used (why buy new when you can save 20 bucks). Having this content only available to people who buy new gives more incentive to buy new. HOWEVER, it does not stop people from SELLING their game later, it just DISCOURAGES people from buying it secondhand. This means that if you buy a game new, it is ABSOLUTELY “you property” (as you guys like to put it) however, it treats those who buy it secondhand less well. That’s GOOD, because those people DID NOT contribute to their profit.
I like seeing this from a business standpoint. However you guys like seeing things from a consumer standpoint so I’ll throw you a bone. The more people buying a game new, the greater the profit, so as the cost of development rises, game prices will rise at a slower pace than the cost of development because people are contributing to a company’s profit.
Yeah I’m a hypocrite. I buy games used AT GAMESTOP all the time, I use ebay, etc. I even started getting Gamefly. However, because of the Cerberus Network, I will not be renting or buying Mass Effect used. I will be buying it new because I like the SERVICE (which is not a bad thing, because it is still my game) that it provides.
I thought the member battlecry came up with an interesting idea in this skirmish, it also lead me to an interesting idea. It seems that alot of game developers out there are making these enourmous epic games, and because of that storage space becomes a problem, where you will end up needing 2-3 DVDs, or Blueray Disc, why not just get rid of those and use USB flash drives to store their games, and have the Xbox,PS3, or Wii run the game off those USB drives? That means there will be no disc spining sound, less heat generated, and you won’t have to worry about them getting scratched. We are heading to the point where we can store up to 256gb on a USB flash drive! People are using these things to run operating systems even, I would not be suprise if Nintendo is looking into this for their next console, and creating a new cartridge format that will have its own little hardrive, and maybe even an extra CPU to help with the physics engine or graphics engine.
The future looks exciting to me, and I am glad to be alive in this generation
MY BATTLE CRY goes, yet again, to all the gamers out there without any backbone that are going to start a boycott and end up eating out of Mr. Kotick’s hand next time his corporation releases anything else.
You guys and the guys over at GameTrailers have been talking about the pay-per-play model first brought up by Kotick. Well, what’s to stop him from adopting that model, considering the HUUUUUGE sales of MW2?? He basically got the idea: no matter how pissed off people are, if the game is hyped up enough, they’re going to buy it, regardless of the costs, lack of features and other such measures. Not just buy it, buy buy it like crazy, millions and millions of copies.
It really is time for people to start showing some backbone. If you say you’re going to prove a point by boycotting a certain corporation, show some friggin restraint and actually DO NOT buy their product; there are enough games out there to help get over the boycotted game.
Boycott 101: do not sleep with the corporation you’re boycotting, sheesh!
MY BATTLECRY has to do with the other companies implenting trade in programs for games. Gamespot currently makes tons and tons and tons of profit off of their practices. For these other companies to make a meaningful impact, give more money for games. I substantially larger amount than gamestop, and advertise the hell out of it. Money may be lost initially, but as people see the difference in the amount of money returned for their games loyalties to the company may increase. WHICH IN TURN may lead to Gamestop offering more for trade ins. If that takes place it just means better deals for gamers.
Its cool to see you guys, after and year and 65 episodes, still holding to what you began this all with “letting our voices be heard.” <3
As you have discussed, if GameStop actually starts selling used games cheaper to cover for that extra stuff that you get with a new game, well thats only part of what need to happen. I have no doubt that sooner or later GameStop will sell used games cheaper. What they will also do though, as pay less for each game that you trade in, which does not benefit gamers in any way. The savings are not being passed on to a gamer.
Game companies will earn more, and GameStop will keep their profits…
Hey Guys do you think you can post the game trailers link as you video player doesn’t have enough bandwidth to stream fluently all the down here in Australia. Since the video player change i have had to find it on GT because it buffers every 10 seconds and for the record i have high speed optic fiber connection.
Interesting discussion on used games, but using Car sales isn’t accurate. Car manufactures do not make too much of a margin on new car sales, it’s the parts and servicing that the bulk of profits that are made. So it’s to the advantage of the car companies to have older cars still circulating in the used car market.
My BATTLECRY goes out of the small game stores around the world. What are owned by indepentend person and usualy games and service is more welcome and feeling is like visiting friend than just a store. These small game stores usualy forms good place for rural area gamers to meet and change info. I bought my ps3 used from a other gamer and both knew local gamestore and the owner didn’t mind that we met there. So local small gamestores are usualy backbone of small towns gaming community.
My Battle Cry relates to the recent “Calender bug” on the PS3. I am the only person who finds it worrying that not only can I be cut off from the internet completely from just a simple error but also be unable to play my games as well? The idea that Sony can just pull the plug on my console if they wanted to is something that greatly worries me. It makes me feel like I don’t actually have any control over a machine that I payed £200 for. Do you think that with the growing use of internet functionality in consoles, companies are taking away responsibility and power away from the consumer?
Brent, I agree with you on that when you buy a game, what you do afterward with it is nobody else’s business. There’s some interesting points in a GT forum:
http://bit.ly/d2hcYM
“First-sale doctrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine. When the purchase is final (no tenting, lease, etc.) the software is under the first-sale doctrine where the purchaser have the right to sold the sofware (and his license) to a another party without the consent of the copyright holder. Despite all what game journalist, lawyer, investor said about the “grey market” of the used games sales, it is a legal to do so. The first-sale doctrine law is define in the Copyright Act of 1976.
The Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc. case confirmed the first-sale doctrine law for software and their license. Copyright Holder CANNOT take consumer’s ownership right and the consumer cannot copy the product he bought unless for a copy safe purpose. Period
So when Daniel Kayser say to Brett Adams, “it’s your opinion”. it is not just his opinion.
It’s the law… and should stay that way.”
My battlecry goes out to the action/adventure genre, one of my favorites. We have been steadily getting a streak of awesome games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, Bayonetta, Darksiders, Dante’s Inferno, and soon God of War 3.
Amidst so many popular genres like FPS’s and sports games, I thank developers for sticking to the genre, and I hope they continue to support it. Last year was the years of fighting games, this year is the year of action/adventure games! Woowoo!
My Battlecry goes out to Metro 2033. Metro 2033 comes from the same (some of the same) folks who did STALKER SoC, which was a very new and inventive take on the shooter genre by mixing up a brew of stealth, action and horror with an RPG flavor.Despite it’s many bugs and delays it was an atmospheric and suspenseful experience that introduced me to a unique game formula that was only in it’s pre-natal stage which made me play thru the game multiple times and always, always made me thirsty for more. Since then we’ve had Clear Sky, which was disappointing in more ways then it had improved and Call of Pripyat, which is to be the best of the series. Stealth is something that is blatantly implied in STALKER, but never fully achieved, case in point, You’re only stealthy enough to comprehend the fight ahead of you and plan your angle of attack, but unfortunately your STALKYNESS ends after the first bullet leaves your gun. This is one of many reasons that Metro 2033 has me feeling so envious for the future. Because those bastards already have game. Also because stealth looks like more than just an implaction; You have a dart gun, you can blow out the lights and there are various traps to trip you up in your stealthy conquest. Everything looks like it fits to the setting with crudely engineered guns that look and fire like their held together with zipties, a cold dangerous atmosphere and hopefully some creepy monsters to put down along the way. I’m really, REALLY excited for this. Really. Really effing excited; I wet myself. I don’t know if it was the unbearable excitement of getting to play a further perfection to the “STALKER fourmula”, or the gameplay videos that are up on GameTrailers that did it, but i’m soaked regardless. I’m gona go change my pants.
It’s too bad you guys recorded this episode before Monday, would of loved to hear your comments on the whole Activision/IW shitstorm.
On Nintendo: While it is exciting to see what these next iterations of old franchises bring to the table, I think it’s also kind of sad that ALL Nintendo has is rehashes of OLD franchises. When’s the last time you saw a good new IP from Nintendo? They can redo old franchises in a great way, but at some point, it’s like… do something that’s REALLY new already!
Used Games: I hope DK is right that this new bonus content thingy manages to shake up the greed at GameStop. Somehow I doubt it will cause them to lower the prices of used games though… I think if it does, it will take several years for the consumer to see any difference.
I do definitely agree with Brent’s analysis though. In the end, neither GameStop or the publishers care about being fair to the consumer. They care about maximizing profit. So no matter what comes down the line, it is always going to be at a loss for us. I think he’s right on the spot with publishers thinking about changing games from goods to services.
I think that GameStop SHOULD be singled out from other used game retailers because I have never encountered another one that marks up used games so obscenely. I’ve been to tons of online used game retails that actually offer FAIR prices for used games. Not to mention the $5 cheaper used copy that GameStop sells is usually sans manual or original case. Whereas on places like GameOrigin.com I’ve purchased used games that come complete with case and manual for a fraction of the cost that GameStop would sell the same game for.
Tony, where’s YOUR battle cry??
To the member battle cry: I don’t know about creating their own console, but I think banding together to form their own digital distribution network would be very beneficial and a great idea.
re: your poll last week — I’ve actually never played any of the games on it so I couldn’t comment :-/
Like the new feature, will it get it’s own video “segment” down the road?
I’ve been a FB fan of you since you first posted the link… hopefully I can come up with something brilliant to post on your wall.
[...] week on EBC about the Jason Rubin-inspired topic of new distribution models for video games. When this week’s episode of EpicBattleCry seemed to be returning to the same subject, I was a tad concerned. But it turns out that the topic [...]
Nice review. I have played lots of Nintendo games but its quite going more than 10 years that i last played. I have recently bought a Nintendo game system. It’s really same fun as i have before.
A new Zelda really is all they need, “its time to get on track” lol!
Just wanted to say that the new business models may be new to the gaming industry but is nothing new to us college students. We have been getting raked over the coal for years over textbook prices. It’s the same exact model that the gaming industry wants to go into. While you may think that gamestop is the only one that’s going to get hurt, the truth of the matter is that shit rolls downhill. The consumer will ALWAYS be the one that gets screwed. Gamestop will figure out a way to pass on their loss on to their customers.
Make no mistake, the game industry will ultimately raise the prices AND force you to also buy DLC as well. Prices will become so inflated that you will be happy to buy them used from gamestop. I don’t believe any of the models being proposed will ever be a win/win situation for consumers.
Aim at the sun. You will possibly not reach it, but you will fly higher than if you never aimed. I guess it’s hard to deny this type of thinking, right?
Great news! Become an agent for Inernet Modeling, and make money recruiting models from your visitors. Easily earn 1,000 dollars per week! http://www.internetmodeling.com/become_an_agent.htm