Unite the clans and ready the forge; its time for another edition of EpicBattleCry! This week, we’re checking out Killzone 3…in 3D, contemplating the delay of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (and its arrival on the iPhone), mulling over the new media for Bulletstorm, and screaming ‘why?!’ to the heavens over the Heavy Rain film adaptation.
After last week’s discussion around the Online Pass initiative, we were hoping to spend this episode doing something constructive, like destroying a sock drawer, but THQ had other plans. They’ve just announced that they will be implementing a one-time $5 fee in order for gamers who pick up a used copy of UFC Undisputed 2010 to access the online content of the game. So, armed with fresh feedback from the EpicBattleAxe community, we charge once again into the melee. Why don’t game publishers just compete at retail with GameStop; how far will they go to tax players for shopping there; can we speak with our wallets and still play the games we love? Saddle up friends, this ride has just begun.
The Battle Cry of the Week goes to Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night, Google’s Pac-man mashup, the Axhead Army, and calls for a sensible approach to annual game releases.
If you’ve got a comment on the show, sound off below, if you’ve got a Battle Cry you want to share, click here and sound off on the latest topic-started post! Stay sharp.
-iPod compatible mp4 download-
UPDATE: The server goblins massed an attack on the eastern wall earlier tonight. We repelled them, but many brave comments were lost in the struggle. We pray mighty Odin shall resurrect the fallen that they may live to cry again. But seriously, just repost your comments please…sorry about the mess.
Aah, my weekly fix of ass-hattery. =)
good morning to the axe heads of the world, i have been watching he show since skirmish 18 and i thought it was about time i responded to a topic, this week in talking about showing the power of the gamer and that companies can’t get away with their marketing tactics of online money play.
Being a soild gamer since the bit wars and beyond i find myself with the lack of care for the newer and better looking games and consoles merely due they offer of the lack of replay ability and last ability of games are few and far between.
The last game i purchased was dragon age, i brought the game second hand with out buying the extra content as if i would of got free first hand but i still enjoyed the game for well over 200hrs with replay value too.
I find most games barely last beyond the maximum of 10hrs worth of play and don’t seem worth the effort of lashing out full retail price with so many games that look so similar, or just lack a decent storyline and only aim towards how pretty it should look, this is aim towards the A class title games of the modern generation where they lack the addictiveness and enjoyment of the early years.
Blasted goblins! Thank Odin for the recovery, I can finally enjoy my weekly fix of hard news and bad puns. (btw it seems that new avatars can’t be uploaded!) Thanks for the great work and dedication.
Guys, I think you have the audio-only version over the video podcast on iTunes as well, they both download the same file.
dispointed that there was no good big news to talk about this week. Not that your conversation wasnt a good one, I just prefer good news as opposed to slightly adjusted bad news from last week…
heres hoping for a lot to talk about within the next 2 weeks.
My battle cry goes to the longevity of games based on “online” gameplay.
Ever since Halo 2′s servers shut down, it bothered me for some reason and took me awhile to figure out why? This is what came to mind: What is the longevity of the games we play now? When MW5: Rangers comes out 8+ years from now, will they decide to keep the MW2 servers? Should we pay $60 for a game that is literally on a time limit? We can’t expect the companies to keep their servers running indefinitely. This comes to mind that not only are these games going to end soon but are we truly paying a justified price for most video games nowadays? It can be argued that we get maps, weapons, or powerups when the game is active, but again this is all on a timelimit….
My battle cry goes mostly like this:
It’s good to bitch every once in a while about game company’s shenanigans but pause for a second MOFOS and hear me out!!!!!!
After playing Supermario Galaxy 2 for 15 hours straight all I can say is you better recognize the excellence in game design and the mastery in video game development that nintendo has put together!!!!!!
Is like if super mario galaxy 2 sucked the badassery of all the sh*tty games on the wii and compiled it in just one master piece!!!!!
I bought red dead redemtion but I cannot stop playing super mario galaxy 2!!!!!
Nintendo figured out the perfect formula of timing and execution to keep you in your couch for endless hours!!!!! An slow burn that grinds your life and never stops!!!!!
We give a TON of sh*t to nintendo for being sooooo mediocre, but duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!!!! if you are looking for the definition of fun, look no further!!!!!!
Supermario galaxy 2 is a love letter not only to Mario fans over the years, but it is a love letter to gaming in general!!!!!!!!!! Did I mention I LOVE this game?
You guys are bashing your heads against the wall with this topic guys. Gamers are sheep. People don’t speak with their wallets. How many people complained about the CoD:MW2 map pack, they were outraged. 1 week later 2.7 million people on Xbox alone bought it. This is how it is and publishers know that. They exploit their fan base and we all fall into it. Anyway i love your show, i love games and i love pwning noobs.
Peace.
Whats up my Munchers of Mayhem my Dinners of Disaster how art thow! My battlecry goes out to the gaming industry pricing. It seems they haven’t learned the lesson of the movie industry by reducing the price of the movie 3 to 4 months latter. You have new release movies and then a few months later you can see the same movie at the dollar theater. The same needs to happen with games. Most games would get more sales and may actually point developers to how much their game is actually worth to people. If you love the franchise you will buy new. If a person wants to take their time on something new they can wait for the price cut. If the game is to short cough*Bioshock 2*cough then your better off with a rental. People can vote with their dollars and the companies can adapt from there.
Two weeks?
“NOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo!”
– Darth Vader
Hi my Decap, axelings xD
regarding the poll ,:
1: red dead redemption is hyped game. I personally h@te rockstar for screwing there PC loyalists ! i will not buy a console simply for this game… !
2: the low score of new mario is propably becus EBA is mostly watched/viewed by “The hardcore Gamer” ( wich simply doesnt own a Wii
and 3 : Split Second is the only medium quality PC game on the poll, wich “We” the hardcore gamer see completely through all the shiny graphics/ explosions
& knows this actually gets boring & scripted after one day !
I am Normally one that always gives his vote on the polls, But this time, No. i would rather not vote, then vote for something that suxxx ^_^
Good topic for next EBC : Why PC gamers are being forced into buying a console ! ( even while pretty much all the games are being created on a PC engine )
regarding future of gaming, i am simply not buying any games from people i know that screw you over.
i do my part !
Thanks for Reading
greetz
D13on the “Perforator of Pixelation”
ps: need guidance? think about what einstein would do !
Ill up your Vader for a Luke.
Nooo! Nnnnoooooooooooooooooooo!
-Luke Skywalker
Yeah, not willing to pay more for my games. Make better games and make better dlc for them to keep them off the used shelf and you’ll make more money fairly. Dont make people who didnt think your game was worth $60 bucks or couldnt afford the full amount have to suffer. I buy any game I want new 100% of the time unless the company screws up on the title like Sega did with Yakuza 3, that was the only time I considered buying used. I was willing to pay money, but not full price for a gimped game with 25% less content taken out of it. EA is just being bastards again and the only reason I sort of care about EA is due to MASS EFFECT and BIOWARE. Other than that, I want nothing to do with them.
my keyboard is now soaked with my tears XD
My battlecry:
So, we want to play our games but also send a message with our wallets? Just pirate the shit out of the industry until they are on their knees.
Or companies like EA makes a deal with Gamestop and give used games something extra. Like when you buy for example a used copy of Madden you will get a team of homeless people (like a joke because you could not buy the game at the normal price) So the gamer gets something extra and the company providing the extra content can have their piece of the pie from Gamestop as it will attract customers to their stores.
I like to comment on the section where a large portion of people are indeed such Lemmings and brain-dead vessels that it will be very unlikely that we win this kind of a struggle with companies as EA, Activision etc, by attempting to speak with our wallets.
As Tony said there are to many people that will fund these companies regardless. Simply because of the fact that people want these games. I am not only talking about sports games. They can even put a unlock code on dead space 2 which simply unlocks the game. Then when someone buys it used he cant play it unless he pays a fee.
If you want to speak with your wallets people would have to stop playing all of the new games. And that will never happen.
Lets say God of War III had this implementation. People would cry havoc about it, yet everyone would have bought the game any way. 100%. Despite the outrage of the business model.
So I guess I am agreeing with Tony on the fact that we should try to find other means to let our voice be heard other than speaking with your wallet. Due to the fact that we will never stand unified by doing this because of the air heads that buy it regardless.
[...] as we mentioned in this week’s Skirmish of EpicBattleCry, there will be no episode of the show in the week ahead as we prep for the big event, so we figured [...]
Tony, you should make solo episode next week:)
Phobos is a moon of mars, the other one is Deimos.
My Battle Cry goes out to the movie industry and their seeming lack of history education. With the announcement (and my subsequent face-palm) this week of a Mass Effect movie, I cannot help but think back to the other video game movies that have come before (Mario, Tomb Raider, Hitman, and the upcoming Prince of Persia movie come readily to mind). In light of the lack of movie reviews for PoP at the time I am writing this, I look to the other movies as a reference for what I am about to say: video games DO NOT translate well into movies (and vice versa). The mediums, while they certainly have similarities, are inherently different in their level of engagement, depth of storytelling, variety and detail of settings, and involvement with the audience. Books and comics (e.g., Sin City, Watchmen, 300, Batman, X-Men, etc.) are able to transition well into movies because their level of interactivity are similar to one another, but this is not the case for video games. Movies tell a story in visual form while games tell a story in phenomenological/tactile/interactive terms. Movies allow the audience to watch a character develop while video games make the audience develop the character. To “translate” one into the other (especially if they are directly porting the storyline of one into the other) is nigh impossible because of these differences. Someone needs to tell this to the movie industry execs because they keep trying to force our square into their round hole.
Why attack used game buyers or renters?
You’ve made a valid point that; in most cases, used game purchases were at one point, retail purchases. The company has received the money for the game and that should be the end of it. Going after the wallets of the used game purchasers or renters is unquestioned greed.
If you need additional money to pay for the extensive content…or servers, then place that price on the game as that was what it costs to pay for the created product. If it’s the cost for additional content on the game then that should be reflected in the cost of that additional content. If it’s because the cost of continued support for the online features…or servers, then that should be an issue with Microsoft or soon Sony.
What is the purpose of Xbox Live or PSN if the money we are paying or soon to be paying for access to multiplayer, is not going to pay for the servers for multiplayer. What are we paying for?
Are we paying for service that allows you to access another service you have to pay to use? This makes Xbox Live and soon PSN to feel like middlemen. So in the end if it’s because costs for servers are too high, then speak to Microsoft or Sony about having their premium charges go towards those costly servers.
There is no excuse for this other than pure greed and it’s pathetic. Either be honest about why you’re doing this…which would never happen as it would generate a firestorm…or take up your problem with those who can help you solve it.
You know what, after writing that comment, I have a member battle cry.
My member battle cry goes out from us: the used game buyers, to the gaming industry.
We’re not your enemies, we’re just like you as we’re just trying to stretch our budgets as much as we can. When we see a game for 60 dollars and find that a place sells it used for 50 dollars, why should we pay 60?
Instead of attacking us for not giving you the money we paid for a game that someone else has already paid you full price for, maybe you should follow our ideas.
Cut costs of development.
I don’t mean fire your employees as I know labour costs are the most expensive part of a business, but they’re the people who make your games great. You’re just cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Look at what’s eating away at your budget.
Follow the housing industry or car industry as they try to use similar frameworks for multiple products. Try to make game engines that can be used for other styles of games, rather than creating a new engine for every game. Try to find creative ways to make game look like beautiful without having to spend years and millions of dollars on creating photo realistic graphics. Focus on interesting gameplay or excellent writing as those generally are far more cost effective than visual strength. The perfect example being casual games and retro games, they aren’t (usually) beautiful, they’re fun.
Have play testers actually check to see if the game is fun to play, if it’s derivative, or if it’s shovel ware as those don’t sell. If you cut out derivative games and invest in high quality titles with dedicated people behind them then you should see your sales increase (Red Dead Redemption, UFC Undisputed, Batman: Arkham Asylum).
Look at advertising and see if hyping a “triple a” title that is going to sell well regardless makes sense instead of advertising a smaller high quality title that needs it in order to recoup costs.
If that doesn’t help, then find other tangible ways to gain additional revenue. Give us things that we want to enhance our entertainment. I think the DLC model is a great idea, as long as it’s worth it and it makes sense (no fu(guitar screech)ing horse armor). Don’t forget that the used gamer has bought your game, if they like it they’ll buy your DLC and you can gain additional revenue that way.
Embrace us don’t attack us.
What’s up, my demon-lords of decapitation, my friars of fornication (a.k.a f “insert guitar noise here” ing), how art thou ?
my battle cry goes out to a system that i think would be awsome, but pretty much impossible:
game prices, based on the quality of the game ^^
a year or so ago i bought destroy all humans for the ps3 for 60 bux and it sucked, it had like 2 million glitches, it was no fun to play and the graphics looked like cr”insert guitar noise here”p.
My idea is to gather a leaque of game experts and judge the game: if the game is cr”insert guitar noise here”p : 20 bux; if its ok : 40 bux; if its a masterpiece like modern warfare or god of war 3 : 60 bux.
i am f”insert guitar sound here AGAIN”cking tired of getting f”o you know what i meen”cked by games that look like fun and then are just cr”o just fuck it”p.
if you agree please comment on this with reactions and your ideas of how this could work
What’s up, my puppies of provocation! my kittens of catastrophe! how art thou?!
My battle cry goes out to another way of speaking, without the use of wallets (cuz I still want me some vidja games) Why not make EBA more public, reach out to game magazines, and more online gaming websites, to show our dedication. We need more voices, and more support if the voices are to be heard. The hardcore video game audience has dwindled and too many kids/parents now-a-days just buy the games without caring about anything besides the game itself. We axeheads have an obligation to educate the masses and get more voices into the cry of havoc. Sure it actually takes effort (and who wants to do that?), but If we want to make a difference without sacrificing the thing we want a difference in, we need more. More effort. More voices. More sincerity.
I for one, tell anyone i know with a love for video games about this website, and I hope everyone should do the same.
another idea just popped into me head :/
video game developers love reviews, and love bragging about their scores no matter where they find them( 9.9 FROM WHO THE F*** CARES MAGAZINE!)why not stop reviewing games? All gaming websites, just don’t give a score, same goes with the magazines. Stop giving words of praise (though you silently support the game) don’t give them anything to shove themselves out there with words of praise bringing in the flocks of the non-hardcore gamers to the gamestop shelves.
bad press is better then no press right? so why give them any press at all?
so there we go, more publicity for the website, less for the games. that is my battlecry,
No energy for some Add like intro or greeting, You guys rock I listen 2 every show. started watching IW to get my EBC fix.
Now for my thoughts on the Online pass. It sucks but kapitalism isn’t full proof. I think they had to choose between 2 evils and picked the lesser evil in my opinion. Cause a price increase Is gonna worsen their position against gamestop.
The brilliant thing about the EA online pass tactic is. That they(-hopefully meaning the developers & investors) are also going to be partly reimbursed by the pirate community! for their MP games. Just maybe it’ll lower the treshold for some pirates to just buy the game. What I like to see, (in benefit of developers who are not reimbursed enough) is that they crank up the pass thingy to 20 bucks, see gamestop sell used MP games then…. Though They have to make the process very easy and very reliable, so we barely notice. Like just through the XBLA/PSN-account. Because when you take the game to a friend to play online, you’re also able to retrieve your account.
In this way they’ll collect their earnings from gamestop/pirates and not from the loyal(retail supporting) gamers by increasing retail prices alltogether. Hopefully price increases will be posponed this way.
Also though the publishers have to give something extra with the game (preferably something tangible, yeah yeah Brice make your comment
). & register the game to the owner’s xbox, In case something happens to your live account (no system is failproof…..).
Niels (phonetic Neil + s)
From Holland
D.K For president
Most of the people that are commenting are also forgetting the people that live in sales tax states. that means that I’m already paying 6 dollars more for new games and anything that gets tacked on will end up being even more for people like me.
OOoooooohohohoooo, think about this. Heavy Rain > Heavy Rain the Movie > Heavy Rain the Movie: the Game > Heavy Rain the Movie: the Game: the Movie > and so on and so forth. Gawdammit!
Hey guys, love the show, been hooked since episode 22. Alright, so I know this horse has been beaten to death, but just wanna throw my 2 cents in there:
As far as EA and Madden go, I am a complete football junky, I LOVE football season and relish every minute of it while it’s here, but I have not bought an NFL game since 2004 (which was NFL 2k5). I REFUSE to give EA my money and have not since they bought the NFL license, I never cared for Madden before and just because they bought it out is still not changing my stance on it… and ESPECIALLY now that they’re gonna start this online fee.
I have been doing what you guys mentioned would suck to have to do, which was stopping something I love just to prove a point, which in this case is not playing Football video games. I’d rather play my 2k5 and the old Tecmo Bowls for NES to tide me over till that license is up. I know my measley $60 isn’t going to put EA in the poor house, but it’s a start…
The Heavy Rain movie discussion reminded me of Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game.
Why do publishers help companies like gamestop sell more copies by adding pre-order DLC, when they later try to reduce the sales of used copies?
I’m glad you guys decided to go back on the whole raise price thing. As said, buyers of the full retail product shouldn’t be the ones to get hurt by this.
This is what is ultimately wrong with a lot of electronic entertainment at this point already. The need to be online, patch stuff upfront, need to keep the DVD in drive, sign in/register for games for people who buy the game.
Whilst those pirating the games get cracks for No-CD and fixed .exe, no need to register etc. etc. Movie buyers need to go through 4 to 6 screens of Don’t pirate movies crap whilst the downloaded version has all that crap cut from it and goes straight to the movie. It’s all useless against pirating and it only irritates the people who already went out to buy the product.
And now the idea of raising price simply to make up for people buying it used. That’s just silly. Which brings me to another point. Retail price per country. I live in Holland and games are just crazy expensive compared to games in UK, USA or whatever. Which is why I now import about 80% of my games, cause I want to support devs by buying retail games, but games cost 20 to 30 dollars more here than in UK and USA and that’s just wrong.
Holland is known (well for people who know about Holland) for it’s high piracy rating and used game market. But that’s no suprise when games (and peripherals/Xbox Live costs etc.) cost almost twice as much as other countries. If they would sell games at same price here as they do elsewhere I’m sure it wouldn’t be such a problem here. Not everyone goes through the trouble of buying overseas afterall.
First and foremost “Phobos” is greek and means “Fear”… you know, all the phobias out there…. How can anyone not know this? This is so american… Not even Brent knew it, really sad.
My Epic Battle cry goes to the backhanded money grabbing nature of EA and UbiSoft. I can understand (partly) them trying to get a grip on the second hand games market, but what I can’t understand is how they are going to do it. Charging for online play is crappy.
As I understand it a person who buys the game and pays to play online, has already paid the server cost for that copy of the game. When it is traded in and bought by somebody else the cost to play online has already been paid. So effectively EA will get double paid. That sucks!
Hey My Epicness,
I know how EA and THQ is trying to charge people for online.. Maybe this isnt such a bad idea after all.. Maybe Microsoft should just remove subscription fees from there system and say if you pay $10-$15 bucks for a subscription per year you get perks like half price on arcade games, different sort of perks instead of online, leadership boarders and voice chat. This means though that all games like Kameo,halo 3 and halo odst and Any game from the past most go free online play and leadership they cant expect us to pick up a few extra codes for the game we do play online what we already payed the money for and they put in this idea. So this mean microsoft can slow down on there price of there subscriptions i am not sure how this will effect sony but for microsofts stand point. This may be a good thing. It may be that we have to have another peace of paper in our game boxes but didnt we have this back in PC of thing with CD Keys. Exactly. This is why i am saying this may be a great idea after all. Thank you guys for listening. This may promote the way gaming is if you want online you have to buy new or pick up a Code for online play this code is good for one time use for any of Bungie, THQ, EA and any video game company out there. If you buy a arcade game though online is free to play all the time Compared to a retail game. This will make sure gamers like my self like this idea and cut the cost of our wallets. Thank you guys for listening if you do.
Hey here is what i think about the online pass. Fuck you!
Holy shit Tony. You fucken nailed it in that online pass argument.
As to finding a way to make our voices heard…why not have a battle cry submission regarding it?
And BTW, Alan Wake was an impulse buy for me…and my god…it turned out being a spectacular game I only wish I had gave it my support sooner. Solid controls, great atmosphere, great story.
@Tony, if speaking with our wallets ain’t going to work, what will? I was hoping you guys might discuss some possible alternatives, but nothing came up.
@Brent: dude, you gotta stop with the super time-sensitive battle cries! The stuff you pick is awesome but sux if people don’t know about it in advance :p
good show fellas
keep it up
[...] was Tony Grice thinking? I’m pretty sure he made the comments that he did on this week’s episode of EpicBattleCry just to taunt me. Or maybe it was more of a poke of the stick just to see if I was [...]
I’m really tired of gamers complaining about madden being released every year.
I’m a fan of madden so I lump myself on the ‘sports gamer’ category. However, I also lump myself in the ‘have self control’ category. How about YOU buy the game every 2 years and get a more improved football game instead of praying for whatever reason for madden not to be released every year. It makes no sense.
I bought Madden 08 and I loved Madden 10 after skipping Madden 09.
So stop wishing they stop releasing a new Madden every year when you could simply NOT BUY IT EVERY YEAR
I guess I’m in the minority because I think this new $10 solution is great. All it does is force retailers to buy and sell used games at lower prices. It also deters consumers from buying from places like Gamestop.
You could also make the argument that Gamestop was already screwing over consumer by reselling games at $55 (after buying the game for $20-$30). They are selling the game twice at the consumer’s and the publisher’s expense.
There are a few things that we can do…
-Do not buy a used game that is $5 cheaper than the new game. By doing this, you are virtually screwing the publishers and developers out of their deserving money.
-Instead of selling games to retailers, trade them with other gamers on sites like Goozex. Or, you could be your own retailer and sell on Ebay or Amazon.
-If you don’t like what is happening, stop whining, and just don’t buy the game. It is ok to inform people about what is happening, but don’t preach or bitch about it.
iTunes version is audio-only? I miss the visual representation. Other than that, still funny stuff
First time post, love the show.
You guys really bash gamestop, but it isn’t the only source of used games. Online stores like Amazon also really make a killing and are much cheaper.
I’m in college and I really don’t have the money to buy a sixty dollar game each month. I buy a game every other month used because that is all I can afford. I decide to buy a game used at gamestop rather than new because I can save ten to twenty bucks. I’m sorry the developers don’t see any of the money I spend, but maybe games shouldn’t cost 60 dollars.
[...] EpicBattleAxe » Blog Archive » EBC Skirmish 077: Absolute Online … [...]
What’s up EBC? Now I know that you want Gamestop stop with the used game sell and go out of buisness.
However the problem for someone like me,a student that don’t have that alot of disposable income, this will become an issue.
When a brand new games costs 70
bucks, I’m gonna be forced to buy less games. So the only way this will be acceptable is if everything goes to digital download only, so the games will be cheaper, and Gamestop won’t be able to get the profit of used games anymore.
P.S I y agree with Tony about Madden, EA needs to stop selling the same game year in and year out.
EBC is awesome!
This absolute online ass should just be dropped for EA and THQ sake. This non-sense bullshit of making this on the consoles and PCs that the games will be priced ten dollars more will have no right for games that don’t have any value over the online mulitplayer aspect of the game (Killzone 2, Starcraft 2, or Super Smash Brothers Brawl).
The only way I can see this working is through a MMO (add whatever type of gameplay here) title like World of Warcraft to pitch this idea and on top of that make a deal like first 6 months are free or something relevant to that structure. That way whoever was mostly wanting of the next big MMO (whatever) title will see some benefit of actually hopping on this idea.
However, if this actual bullshit of plan that EA is going to release to the public, in addition does what Gamestop does in pre-ordering games for the new skin, weapon, person, or whatever the fuck they think will attract gamers, then it is going to backfire on them sales wise because paying more for a video game now it’s retarded.
In addition to hating GameStop beyond the point of rage is that I think that franchise is the biggest slap in the face for gamers since video games now don’t come with the complete package. What happen to releasing a game where you would get everything eventually in the game if you gotten a 100% achievement on it? That’s why I don’t go near that abomination that is GameStop anymore cause of the pure stupidity it causes.
My ebc goes out to spoiling e3 announcements. I must have seen 2 dozen “to be shown at e3″ announcements and shit like that. Like damn I want to save it for E3, but when it comes around I will know like half the shit they are showing. Go on destrcutoid or another Gaming news site, and they constantly are saying what shit will be at e3… its damn annoying, its comparable to someone spoiling the ending of a book or movie.
You have a point. Very insightful. A nice different perspective.
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