Raise the pain-sticks and prepare for ascension! Its time for another edition of EpicBattleCry! In this week’s Skirmish, we run down the release date for Final Fantasy XIV, check out BioShock 2‘s latest DLC, discuss the news Fable III is going episodic, and ponder whether Raiden has what it takes to carry the Metal Gear Series on his own.
With Shigeru Miyamoto‘s recent comment that Nintendo “needs new characters,” we sit down to discuss what makes a great game character and why Nintendo‘s mascots have stood the test of time. Will Marcus Fenix or Nathan Drake have the same longevity as Mario and Link?
The Battle Cry of the week goes to the remote deletion of content, an HD ICO/Shadow of the Colossus Collection from Sony, the prowess of three year old gamers, and calls on the gaming gods for fal tor pan of the Full Spectrum Warrior IP.
If you’ve got a comment on the show, sound off below, if you’ve got a Battle Cry you want to share, click here and sound off on the latest topic-started post! Stay sharp.
Bout time! Let the skirmish begin!
I’m going to be honest here. Quite frankly I was not impressed by what was shown to us at E3 about MGR. Fact is that Raiden still moved the same exact way Snake did since MGS on the psone. No jumping was shown, so I have to assume that the way he gets over crates is by pressing the triangle button next to them. The cutting was very impressive, I would be lying to myself if I didn’t say that. But the way everything seems to control gives me the idea of what to expect. Which is nothing more than a upgraded version of the final fight in MGS2. It was nice, but very annoying, not a favorite moment in the game.
WOOT!! probably a nights work for mister “Viking Brent”Adams. Thanks man
fcdzfvcxvxcvcxvvcx
Smart backgrounding and customization are the name of the game. Developer and former Applethis
Hey, spanish here. I am a fluent english speaker so I play all my games in English. So if you configure your xbox in english you shouldnt have any problems with game language. Al ways in English. Of course that includes DLC
Equating what Amazon did and what Google did seems unfair. Google removed a free application specifically designed to be an invasion of privacy to the user, by a security researcher. That was of course a violation of the application developer licenses, and although it had been pulled and the researcher warned, some people still had the potentially dangerous app on their phones. Google did a good thing.
What Amazon did, what Apple keeps doing, however is not. You want ammo, look at them =P
they forgot to do last week’s poll results =/ but great show guys can’t wait for next week’s episode
Love you guys!
)
btw i made an account on gog.com and gotta say I freakin think it’s cool.
Become a thief? Bahahaha. That’s fuckin’ great Tony
Wasup my olimpions of destruction! my masters of apocalypse! how art thou? (its yours Brent, take care of it)
My battlecry goes out to kojima productions for FINALLY making a metal solid game thats not about sneaking, Some of my friends never gave it a try becuase they are not into the hole sneaking gameplay, I think creating Rising is a very smart move for that kind of audience and it might bring new players into the series.
Ahhhh! Man, I had a similar conversation with my housemates around the time MGS4 came out. They were complaining that there was no jump button for Snake!
That’s a GOOD THING PEOPLE!!! How many times do you jump over things in real life? How many films/TV series do you see other human beings jumping up and down in? HARDLY ANY!
Jumping belongs in platformers! And don’t give me “Raiden is a ninja and ninja’s jump!” While it’s true that they may jump they would not, when faced with some crates for example, jump to get over them. They, like most sensible people, would climb over things in their way.
Keep jumping for the platformers! Keep that shit out of MGS! Thank GOD that Raiden CANNOT JUMP!!!!!!!!!
*EDIT*
In fact, Ima jump on this bandwagon…My member Battle Cry goes out in rage against the blurring of genres. While it’s sometimes a good thing to see a blend of elements that make up other games, the idea that all games should incorporate as many different mechanics and functions from other genres is not a desirable direction IMO.
The idea that all games should allow the character to jump, that all games should have dialogue options, that all games should have level-up systems etc. CANNOT BE HEALTHY!
It’d be like sitting down to watch the latest Sci-fi Blockbuster and having Rom-Com elements in it in a vein attempt to please everyone in the audience. Not good people!
Genres exist for a reason. Cross them over on occasion and revel in the awesome games that may be produced. But remember that you can have too much of a good thing. Some of the best games are simple and pure, with no fluff or flounce to sully the experience. And their lasting appeal is testament to the benefits of such purity.
…yeah, I’m done
I think MGS Rising looks awesome, really want to play it, and while on that topic, I think I am one of the few that didn’t make a fuss about playing as Raiden in mgs2..dissapointing yes. but back then, to me, it was more about the gameplay. And if we are gonna complain about mgs2, what’s alot worse than playing as Raiden is the fact that you are running around on an orange-coloured oilrig the whole friggin’ time! it also has the worst script of the mgs-games. Anyway, I think Raiden redeemed himself when he came back as a cyborg-ninja. Stop living in the past guys, forgive and forget.
*stupid rant complete*
I have to interrupt listening for a moment after Brent’s talk about ‘what makes a good character’ and the Nintendo-exception. I have not, in my conscient life, heard anyone speak what’s on my mind so clearly. That was in a single word: Amazing. Props to you for that Brent.
What i think makes Nintendo characters so great is the fact that they are the strong silent types. How many Nintendo characters ever spoke throughout the whole game?
Mario
link
Donkey Kong
Olimar
The fact that they don’t speak so much gives the gamer the opportunity to fill in a part for there own, thus feel more related to there character. Nintendo gives you a guideline and you fill in the blanks.
When you would give allot of detail to a character, it leaves no room too fill in the blanks, but doesn’t really mean it would be a bad character, it would just mean that that specific character will fit the best in the context that it is designed in.
Let’s say if a dog would talk too you the whole day trough? Damn I would get fucking annoyed! We like them because they are silent and cute
Continuation of my previous post:
The title doesn’t do this skirmish justice. It’s actually pretty solid again
Only thing, is it just me or did you skip the poll?
If there’s gonna be new characters from Nintendo, they should base ‘m around the three of you. That’d be funny with a big f’ing F.
Whats up my butchers of brutality my militia of massacre how art though!? Okey, the best game characters, easy piecey! What sticks with me is charismatic and mysterious characters like Gordon Freeman, Cloud from FF7, Illidan from WC3 and Manny Calavera starring in Grim Fandango. All these guys are heroes, but not the kind you might think, some try to save the world, but some just want to save their own ass. Another thing that is VERY important for a character is the ability for the player to identify them selfs with the character, if you cant identify yourself with a character the immersion has failed. For example if Link could talk and make decisions it would feel like you play more than an errand boy, this would really get me into Zelda again but it seems they just stick with their ocarina of time concept.
PS. Please let it be known that Lost Vikings HD would be a homerun for PSN and XboxLive, Blizzard/Activision hook that shit up!
or…become a thief! XDXDXDXD I’ll make a shirt with that awesome quote!!!!!
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LMAO! Gabe Newell rolled onto (and off) the stage. That was great!
Awesome show as always guys! Can’t wait for next weeks!
Wanted to give my view on character design. While im sure there are many factors developers have to consider when actually getting a decision made for their game. I think the biggest characters, and the ones that stay in the minds most gamers, are simply the characters that are in the best games.
Tony mentioned a bit about how Nintendo have generic characters. These have now become modern entertainment icons in most part because of the sheer quality of the games they are associated with.
Another example is Master Chief, who is by most accounts just a walking suit of armour. However the phenominal success of that series has naturally vaulted its main character into an (almost) household name.
( and also great job on the show guys, really love it
)
Hey my dastardly dudes of destruction, my evildoers of evisceration. My battlecry goes out to the dutch government. A certain minister, Hirsch Ballin, is proposing a bill to ban violent games from being sold. This is because he believes that shops don’t implement the rules concerning the selling of games to younger people good enough. This has led to several petitions etc, but it still bothers me that someone in his position, with his influence, is doing these things without delving into the gaming culture and without consulting experts and literature. Gaming has the reputation of being anti-social but in reality reading a book is just as anti-social (if not more) than gaming. Furthermore there is a lot of evidence that violent games don’t lead to violent behavior. That doesn’t mean my 5 year old kid gets to play Modern Warfare but it sets things into perspective. I want to choose what I buy, and if the governnment doesn’t want young children to play violent games, then they should target the shops who sell those games to kids and the parents who let the kids play the games, or don’t have a clue what their kids are playing.
Anyway, love the show, it really makes my day. Keep on going!
what happened to RSS feed with mp4 downloads? ep 80 not there!
can u fix it?
While I do see need for both simple and deep character types (one of my fav simple characters is Link), my fav most beloved character has to be *drum roll* Solid Snake. Cliche’? Let me explain. From MGS1 to MGS4 you see a major character development and connection rarely seen in games. In MGS1 Snake is more of the common hero type. Strong, superhuman, lone wolf, etc. But as badass and superhuman as he may be, there’s still something very human and compassionate about him which is something Marcus Fenix and Kratos could never achieve. Like in his moments with Meryl. He always appears to be fighting for the good of everyone else over himself. Once we reach MGS4, you have been through so many moments seeing Snake as the strong character who will always pull through for you that it’s gut wrenching to see him so vulnerable and no one to help him. In MGS1 he’s doing back flips off of missiles, in MGS4 he can hardly stand up without taking an injection. Yet he keeps on fighting with no sense of self preservation. (Like when he crawled through the microwave hallway) There’s moments in the story when things are hopeless. You watch a once strong, proud warrior become very vulnerable and fail time and time again. A very risky choice for the story, which I think was brilliant. And probably why I almost started balling like an 8-year-old girl when Octacon said “Snake’s had a hard life.”
Football, the king of sports!
[Insert some witty Brentish (yes i just made up a word) heavy metal oriented greeting including high level of violence and gore]… How art thou?
My battlecry goes out to Square-Enix and FFXIV involving their alpha test. I was one of the lucky ones who were accepted to test the new Final Fantasy Online with series of Alpha tests. I have never been in Alpha before, only in few Betas and i was excited to try the game as i love FF-series in general… Im not in liberty to discuss any of the gameplay mechanics so ill just say the game looks great but holy crap was it hard to know what to do. There was no control tutorial or even email explaining the controls, i had to literally push every frigging button on my keyboard to know what does what. After the “tutorial” i was stuck in an area which had no way out and i wandered there for about an hour, not finding my way out and having talked to every person multiple times. Then all of a sudden when i was talking to an npc i was teleported to the city. So i had to wait for an hour to get out of there? Or did i do something to trigger this?
All and all the Alpha was an disaster by my standards. It would be nice if they included some options to optimize the controls as the camera control was inverted and gave me nausea and headache as im not used to inverted controls.
To Square: If your want good, constructive results, start by providing basic stuff like control mapping and somesort of guide (even if its on the interwebs). I know its an Alpha version but for me the game was unplayable simply because there was no option to change the controls and somekind of guide to help me get to the city where there are other players. I didnt even find any help from the website as it was all over the place and pretty confusing.
On a different topic and to answer your question on which game character is my favourite and why, i’d have to say Nathan Drake.
To me what makes a good character isn’t the fact that he/she is funny or like me.. Its his/hers flaws that makes a character imo. Thats why i have never really liked these silent game characters like Link, Freeman and in some sense Mario. Flaws are the thing that makes characters come to life (for me anyway) and their way of dealing with trouble. Drake is a kind of guy who pushes back if pushed but is really likeable and nice guy in general. As far as his flawes go, he has his moments where he tries to be the hero and ends up making things worse or the fact he takes things too “lightely” sometimes.
But as i said, Nathan Drake takes the cup home in my opinion.
As a finisher, keep up the good work. Been a huge fan from the skirmish 1!
Ps. Excuse my english, its not my native language.
It is true that some genres should never “force” the blending of other genres, that alone does not mean that games cannot become better from incorporating other genres correctly. Uncharted is a blend of platforming, shooter AND puzzle solving. Twisted Metal is a blend of racing and shooter/deathmatch. GTA has alot of going on for itself that listing them would be crazy. Games should never force but should not hesitate to explore. As for jumping? I do it quite often. I jump off the 3rd to 5th step on stairs to get down faster. I jump over fences because walking around them would take too long. The reason you don’t jump in public is because you can hurt someone from the momentum including yourself. Are you really afraid to hurt someone in a game? (unless its a freakin escort mission…)
Aside from the classics ( Mario, Link, Master Cheif etc.), one of my favorite characters is Eddie Riggs from Brutal Legend. Jack Black did an great job of voicing Eddie, and the writers captured all the characters persona’s perfectly. Eddies outfit screams bad ass, and both his axes shout epicness and rock. Top notch voice acting, great dialogue, brilliant character design, and an excellent world drenched in a metal and rock atmosphere all add up to one f(guitar sound)ing awesome character. Love the show. Keep cutting through the crap.
You have to excuse my english, Im from Sweden. Anyway, lets get on with it!
As I listened to the show and watched both segments, the remake of shadow of the colossus, and when you guys talked about how a video game character should be like, my mind went to Wanda in SotC, and Ico from Ico. They are my favourite characters, and here’s why; They are both weak, and thats why we (I) can relate to them. While most characters we see are either pretty cocky or extremely powerful and doesnt have much fear, Wanda and Ico are both teenage boys with very little power in their hands, just like (i assume) every teenager who played this game, and even the adults. I mean, Ico is equipped with a stick for christ sake.
What I really want to emphasize is how we can relate to the characters. If we can do that, in any way shape or form, the characters will stick with us.
A sad part of this is that a lot of people didnt play Sotc, and even fewer people played Ico, so they wont know what the hell im talking about. But for the people who played these games, and actually liked them, they know exactly what I mean.
Interesting listening to your show this week guys !
Especially the guy who posted in regarding DLC in Spain and wanting it in English.
I am Irish living in Germany, and I have been banned from xbox live after detection of English bought games been played on there German online servers.
I suppose because it looks like I am playing Backup copys simply because of the English editions of particular games I have in my collection.
To Microsoft for a German to be playing different region / Country games on there German server I must be cheating or using a Hacked Machine, Due to the Microsofts no come back rule or discussion I have a banned console without a comback…..
Microsoft should do more checking before banning customers they believe are cheating and cross border (Different Countries) Games and DLC should be selective by your preferances rather than your geography or region.
As not everyone originally comes form the same country that they are playing there console in.
Thanks Guys great show…..
Gamefly…23bucks per month for two games out as long as you like. Do it right and it pays for itself.
I know this has nothing to do with video game characters, but my battlecry goes out to Blizzard. Soon, on the Blizzard forums, they will be displaying your real name (First and last). What the hell??? This is possibly the most retarded thing a company could do. This will make it much easier for hackers to obtain the information to steal your account. If that’s not bad enough, it could increase E-stalking. Now, people’s Blizzard forum accounts will display their location, email address, and full name! This opens the door for child molesters to show up to kid’s houses and stick them in the back of a van. What the fuck happened to internet anonymity??? Not only is this retarded, it could also be dangerous.
My favorite video game charachter is captian price. He is the most Bad-ass charachter ever! He never dies from grenades, bullets, and age. In cod2(ww2) price seems to be in his 30′s/40′s and in MW2(2010) he seems to be the same age. Also he wears cool hats
Hey guys, my favorite game character is Alix Vans from the Half Life series because she actualy gives players a face to look at in the game. I know that Freeman is a great character because he is supose to be a super smart guy and puzzle solver, zombiealien killer; but because of the FPS type of game, is that the nature of the character is almost anonymous. I just like the way that the guys from Valve have managed to create a character that is not the main one but is actualy the protagonist.
Sorry for my english. You guys are great and greetings from Colombia
Hahahahahhahaha, “become a thief”. Best ANYTHING, EVER!
Really Dan needs to get over himself, I am really sick of his self righteousness. Really, Who is he to tell parents what games their kids should be playing? Just like with the game companys, yes they make money and try to make as much as they can. If you got an issue with it, feel free to ship your self to china, they dictate what business do. This is still America.
Also, really, he needs to let the other two talk. Does he even breath? Man.
Erh!… ok.. repeat after me,you can not be an Viking unless you are a Dane or a Sweede… comón say it with me.YOU CAN NOT BE A VIKING UNLESS YOU ARE A DANE OR A SWEEDE!!!… Now go back to your history books ;P
uuh Dude…. Thats the NICKNAME of Brent. Just look at the top who posted it…
whats up with that !!!
What’s up, my pussycats of grooming, my Barbies of cuddling, how art thou?
I agree with Nintendo’s tactic of making characters, because I think that you don’t need a lot of back story and characteristics to make somebody likable and, as you guys said, that’s a must if you want a long lasting character to milk in every other game you release. With that said I can tell you that my favorite character is Cpt. Price from IW’s Cal of Duty games. We don’t know much about him nor how he didn’t age a bit from WW2 to modern times, but we do know that he is a patriot has a badass voice and a awesome beard.
Oh, and I also like Lara Croft, because of the… ummm… bewbs! I like bewbs.
You’ve got it wrong >_< It should be like "olimpions of obliteration, masters of masturb… eee mutilation"
Wasup my demon-lords of deviation, my friars of fornication, how art thou?
my battle cry goes out to 2k games, more particularly bioshock 2. I think that 2k games made the right decision with making the main character a big daddy, in the first bioshock you were a man being hunted by splicers and big daddies, the players that fought those big daddies probably thought that big daddies were awesome and that being a beg daddy would be even more awesome, so every bioshock player would be absolutly thrilled when the first heard that in bioshock 2 they would play a big daddy, so they are instantly hyped and will buy the game, and because of the big fanbase of the first bioshock, bioshock 2 would have incredible sales.
Yeah, that’s the weirdest thing – most of the time games I download or buy come in English, because my system has English as the default. But there are exceptions – the copy of Deadspace (great game) I bought is only in Portuguese or Spanish, and the Fallout 3 DLC is only in Spanish.
Now I don’t mind playing Dead Space in Spanish, it was the mix that was annoying me (and the Fallout 3 disk was bought in England and only has English on it).
It’s just inconsistent and stupid.
In any case, thanks guys for talking about it on the show!
Wasup my demon-lords of deviation, my friars of fornication, how art thou?
my favorite gaming-character would have to be the pink ghost of pacman, I mean, I respect that dude, all the magazines are all gossiping about if he’s gay or not and all the other ghosts are laughing at him, but he still wakes up every morning to do his job. Even when he’s broken inside he still goes after pacman with pride …
GO GET HIM, YOU PINK BASTARD !!! *sniff*
@Part 2: Sony’s done it – Sackboy!
Though I suppose it wasn’t actually Sony who made it..
Great show as always guys!!
I just can’t beleive how negatively opinionated and biased you guys were towards Final fantasy XIV, I mean, you guys didn’t even bother to go to SE’s booth at E3 and watch the new Beta version of the game. Also the footage shown in this show is from the pre-alpha version shown at TGS 2009! Wow…kind of disappointed there wih you guys.
Cheers axeheads!
As Matt Groening (Simpson’s Creator) once said “The best characters are ones you can recognize in silhouette”
If u look at all the Nintendo Characters, they are ALL easily recognizable in silhouette. Nathan Drake will never be the memorable character because you can’t recognize them.
Sup guys love your show, this is my first battle cry so be nice. my fav character would have to be Gordon Freeman from Half Life why? Well he is the only character out there that makes me feel like i really in the game. As Freeman you get to play the way you feel like playing. Freeman gets put in a world that is insane, and he some how can life threw it with out the need of some super power or any thing (just a little science here and there) he dose stuff that any one of us could do and that really bring me in to the game. Hands down Mr.Freeman is the best character ever.
hey EBC, my favorite video game character of all time has to be andrew ryan from bioshock. Ryan has a sense of mystery behind him that not many video game characters have. How he created such an underwater utopia and then destroyed it all with greed makes you really want to get to know what is going on in his head. IMO, a good sense of mystery makes a great video game character.
Whats the game called starting in Part 2 @ 1:28?
Although I have no interest in the game, I think it’s pretty awesome that the new FF is going to PC first, and by such a large jump. Publishers ignore PC so much these days, so it’s nice to see something like that come along and say “Hey, PC gamers, we still care!”
DK – you are certainly not the only one who feels that way about Bioshock 2. I’d say a month or two after release, it pretty much dropped off the radar. I didn’t have much interest in it initially, after hearing that the original devs weren’t involved. After hearing the mediocre reviews of it, I became even less interested. The single-player DLC for $5 is very cool though.
Petey Moleneaux = bald headed douche. yes!
MGS Rising… I’ll reserve final judgement till it’s out. At the moment, the previews to me look pretty juvenile. SLICE SLICE SLICE OMG! Arterial spray all over! WOOO! There’s nothing about this that looks related to the MGS franchise, aside from the same character. I think they should of just made it a new game entirely, and not used the MGS name. Of course, it would not sell nearly as well if they did that. Metal Gear Solid was only named as such because Snake received the title of “Solid” after MG2 or something. Snake isn’t even in this game, so calling it that makes even less sense. That’s a nitpick I know, but they might as well of called it Raiden Rising.
It is a tantalizing prospect that this might mean the separation of Hideo Kojima from MGS. Maybe it will finally mean an end to his reign of George Lucas style nonsense.
That Google thing is pretty messed up. I thought their motto was “Don’t be evil.” Times like this I’m glad I don’t have a smart phone.
I already played Shadow of the Colossus on my PS3 upscaled, so I don’t really care about an HD upgrade. Doing so might also detract from The Last Guardian coming out soon, so I’d much rather have that.
The Steam sale was F’ING AWESOME. I bought a lot of stuff. They do sales like that all the damn time though. It’s got to be some kind of diabolical marketing gimmick.
oh and addendum to the MGS rant, since I can’t edit my post anymore:
One of the central themes of MGS has always been that the soldiers who make up your enemies aren’t the real bad guys — that they are just men doing their jobs. That they don’t deserve to die, and that there are always other ways of getting around them. This is often where the stealth played in, enabling you to go through the game with zero kills, sparing the lives of these guys who are essentially just like you. Rising no longer looks like it allows for that, so yet another departure from MGS.
sup EBC, just wanted to sound off on what I first thought of when the segment on Nintendo’s game characters having little personality and being used purely as an avatar for the gamer, which was are old blue friend, Sonic. The way I see it he’s the perfect example of a character who WAS a voiceless, mostly personality free, avatar throughout the early games, then was given a personality when he was dragged kicking and screaming into 3D. This may be one the reason why very few people like Sonic anymore: he was always loved as a sprite which kicked ass and didn’t make smart comments that make you want to smash his face off with an(epic)battleaxe.
My battlecry gos out to my undeniably favorite character in videogames, Me. I know it might sound kind of vain, but when im able to sit down and play a game like the Elderscrolls or other similar rpg’s, i have the most fun. The best characters really show your true personality and the easiest way to do that is buy designing a character that takes after yourself. I believe companies try to miror this by creating faceless protagonists. Characters such as dare I say Masterchief create a persona that can be filled by the players own imagination. Rock on EPICBATTLEAXE!
“It looks good,I have learn a recruit!
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i hurt my throat because everytime i listen to EBC when its time for the gauntlet i yell GAUNTLET!!!!!!!!!!!i like raiden and i think MGR will be pretty awesome they really need to branch it other directions besides snake and big boss which are pretty much the same character. speaking of characters im currently playing half life 2 and im really enjoying alex. she seems like an actual person and not just someone reading lines, she shows a lot of emotion that comes across real, for once i actually care about making sure my buddy is ok. i love the steam sales too i picked up 6 games for about 25 dollars.