Here on EpicBattleAxe.com we try to cut through the crap. We even made it our motto. Sometimes that means that we have to take an unpopular position and then stand our ground. We hold strong to our beliefs and and we aren’t afraid to do so, even if we will get flack for it.
This week’s episode of EpicBattleCry presented our illustrious podcast hosts with just such a situation and they planted their flag to defend a lesser taken viewpoint. Well, sort of. Their intents were good – to try and say something positive regarding a gaming topic about which they are generally espousing negative verbiage. But alas, it proved too much for them. They were unable to maintain the loving attitude that they intended. Ultimately, the conversation digressed into a pool of negativity with DK Money Shizzle lackadaisically trying to throw out a life preserver at the end. Well fear not, my friends, for I will tow the line. I do this because there has been a cacophony of disdain consistently hurled at this product by everyone except those who have actually seen it, and I don’t know why. So I will take the unpopular stand, and say it loud and proud, Project Natal is cool!
Aww, pipe down and read on. I will tell you why…
If you don’t know what Project Natal is, Google it. But briefly, it is Microsoft’s upcoming addition to the Xbox 360 that offers motion capture capabilities that will allow you to move objects (or people) on the screen simply by moving your body – no controller necessary. But beyond that, Microsoft claims that the device will also be able to recognize color, facial movement, respond to your voice, and even read emotional cues such as vocal intonation and expression.
Since the moment of its announcement in June of 2009, I have heard nothing but negative things about Project Natal from the the gaming community. Correction – I have heard nothing but negative comments from those who have not yet seen it in person, and nothing but positive feedback from those who have. Almost without exception, those who have had hands on time with Project Natal have said that it pretty much does what Microsoft claims and that it is very impressive. On January 14th of this year Ryan Geddes wrote on IGN.com, after seeing a demo of Project Natal, that “we were all believers”. He went on to say that Natal “was so different, so engaging, that we couldn’t ignore its potential.” These are words that have been echoed by nearly everyone who has actually spent time with the device. Will Natal change gaming forever? I don’t know, and frankly, I don’t care. I just know that it is an amazing piece of technology.
Popular Science Magazine described the device in its January 7, 2010 article by saying that Microsoft “is working on more than just a new video-game system. Microsoft is trying to move AI forward”. Incredibly, it is rumored that they will be tackling this problem for around a $50 expense to the consumer. Should Microsoft succeed at doing this, we could be looking at a redefining of user interface technology that reaches far, far beyond gaming. Imagine ATM’s that you don’t have to touch, or classroom presentations with no PowerPoint remote. Picture a home that turns your lights on and off as you walk through the house and at your pre-set light preferences not only because it recognizes where you are, but because it recognizes who you are from the shape of your body. Picture Minority Report. How does that not give you a little bit of a geek-gasm?
But what about gaming? After all, the device is premiering on a gaming console. Do you not care about the myriad of possible uses for Natal’s technology throughout the real world? Would you, instead, rather talk about what it is going to do for your games? No problem. We are all clear that Paint the Elephant and Flailing Ball Kicker (See Microsoft’s Keynote speech from E3 2009) are not what most gamers are looking for. But it is easy to see that with even a little bit of progression from these silly tech demos, developers will be able to create games that a kid would love, and that is a legitimate endeavor. Additionally any kind of fitness game would do very well with Natal. Laugh if you will, but there is a significant research movement around exer-gaming involving renowned universities and fitness personalities who are trying to integrate exercise into gaming to make healthier kids (as a side note, imagine if you were trying to learn to exercise and Natal could correct your form until you do it right. Your Wii-mote wont do that).
But what about more mature games? How can Natal integrate into deeper, more serious games? This is also a blank slate with a world of possibilities, you just have to see them. My hope is that Natal might bring some interesting new aspect to the old school adventure games. I could see using my hands to manipulate and investigate a crime scene. In a different genre, perhaps Natal’s voice integration would allow for more fluid dialogue in RPG’s by allowing the player to simply ask the questions they want to instead of picking from a list of the obligatory good, neutral, or bad guy choices where you are not always sure which one you are picking. Or maybe it simply gives the player the ability to create a game avatar that actually and completely looks like them. Here is one more possibility for you (and my particular favorite). Imagine Natal paired with the new 3D technology that is just coming out. Envision yourself sitting in an over sized swivel chair with a joystick on each arm rail. Now picture that there are 3D images coming out of the tv and you are swiveling your chair to move these images around you in a full 180 degrees arc (very Minority Report, I know), all the while continuing to use your armchair controllers. It may seem far fetched to you, but it is not. This is not science fiction. It is very possible right now and it is slowly getting more consumer friendly.
I am sure that the device’s successful integration into hardcore games, as we currently conceive them, will likely be its most complicated challenge. But difficult doesn’t mean impossible. I really look forward to what our industry’s most creative minds come up with. The are a multitude of possibilities out there and most of the game developers seem to be interested in finding them. So brush off that negativity, gamers, and (in the immortal words of the immortal Monty Python) look on the bright side of life.
Project Natal is a lofty idea, to be sure. And yes, as gamers, we are conditioned to be disappointed by grandiose claims made about a new hardware that will change gaming. But Natal is getting remarkably good press, and consistently. This particular console addition has far reaching potential that could impact devices beyond gaming. So, will it? How will it impact gaming? What do you think? I want to know. Drop a comment and tell me if you agree with me or think I am insane. As usual, we want to hear it loud and proud! Cleave on!
Editor’s Note: Lorin Baumgarten is the founder/owner of Furious Gamer Radio and when not daydreaming about the technologically-enhanced future of ATMs and armchairs, he enjoys breaking off pieces of rare, imported, and outrageously expensive chocolate for his feline friends “Kit” and “Kat”. Oh, and if you wanna sound off with YOUR ideas on cool ideas for Natal, you can do so here.










Basically it is an impressive device that would become the next wii fit and when it comes to gaming, well dont get our hopes up but at least we will use it for various things…
nope… still a cheap gimmick…
It has potential but as the guys have said on EBC basing an entire control scheme on Natal doesn’t seem like the best choice. And I get the feeling that it will be mostly targeted at a non hardcore audience like the Wii. Probably most hardcore games that use Natal would work just fine with standard controls alone like Zelda TP, Smash Bros Brawl, Muramasa, and other hardcore games on the Wii.
For the voice recognition part I think it still has limitations. You couldn’t ask anything you want because it would be extremely hard to script every possible response. I don’t know how far we are nowadays in AI development but I don’t think it’s possible today to give open answers if you’re not given some restrictions.
It has potential but I don’t think it will be a revolution for gaming. They said that about the Wii and the only thing it did was to make non-gamers play casual games.
I like what you have written Lorin. I just have a few questions for you from a skeptical side. and some info.
From what I have heard the 360 is not compatible with 3D technology(yet) and I can’t find the link but they actually mocked sony for it(I’ll post if I find it). This is all hearsay though and facts are facts. The PS3 is doing motion, 3D and everything else. The 360 has shown nothing for the hardcore or how they plan on doing it.
So far I have seen absolutely nothing that can’t be done with sonys motion control. Imagine your minority report with a PSEYE and a glove with a few lights on the end of it… In 3D… Seems great to me.
What do you think Natal can do that the PS3 motion control cant? Do Hardcore gamers really want to spend hours at a time jumping around their rooms? how much space do you need to use this properly? Why has the public STILL not seen any ideas for hardcore games?
All these people you say that got to play it and had good impressions of it… I had GREAT impressions of my Wii when I first loaded up Wii Sports. I played it with my friends every night for a week… Now it collects dust because all it has to offer anymore is waggle games and a few far fetching hardcore games. I loved Zelda more then any other series but I can honestly say I don’t believe that my experience was any better then OOT because of waggle and motion…
Still though with you keep going back to minority report… 180 degrees… You need a very big TV to do that… Bigger then anyone can afford. Maybe 3 52 inch TV’s all next to each other in a semi circle. with the videogame system set up to handle that but then again… Natal is now software based so they cut down on the 360′s horsepower top make the camera more affordable to consumers… Cutting back on the systems power to me means more casual games. Smaller scope and scale and a bunch of other things…
Anyway enough of my rant. I am just way to skeptical. Good post though.
I have a major question about Natal. What if I show a PS3 to Natal? Will I be able to use that as an object or will the 360 immediately suffer from RROD?
On the point though, I think some people in the industry have gotten it wrong. When I am playing a game, I am not pretending to be the main character. I am interacting with the virtual world. There is a difference between the two.
I seriously not looking forward playing Super Streetfighter and having to make the hadouken motion for a hadouken.
Take the Wii as an example. They practically made a console for the people that thought that tilting the NES controller would actually make Mario jump and not only they made it, they dared call it revolutionary. The point is that I don’t want to jump in order to make the character jump.
All in all, Natal could be used in a good way but all I have gotten from the videos is that it is a Powerglove without the glove.
And to anyone that thinks that my opinion is not objective, you are right. I believe though that lots of subjective opinions make an objective collection of opinions.
“Picture a home that turns your lights on and off as you walk through the house and at your pre-set light preferences not only because it recognizes where you are, but because it recognizes who you are from the shape of your body.”
yeah but what about when that fucks up which all tech enevitably will, and seriously, is turning a light on or off that hard? no it’s not.
also most research has shown that the benefitial effects of excer-gaming are actually pretty minimal. admittedly more than just sitting there doing nothing, but less than actually doing some real freakin exercise. if you take your kid to a Karate class once a week or whatever you will be doing them so much more of a favour than buying something that takes the onus off you as a parent to bother your ass to keep your kid healthy. Seriously, just don’t be a shit parent and your whole family will be a lot happier. Natal is not the answer in any way, shape or form.
i’m pretty disappointed to see this on EBA, it’s just pro-NATAL propaganda and i thought you guys had more integrity. Its just asking us to use our imaginations and see how wonderful NATAL could really be. Bollocks!!! MS have to SHOW me how great it is. I’m not going to do there marketing work for them by convincing myself this is good before i’ve even seen it.
i can imagine how wonderful the future is going to be, i don’t need anyone to help me do that FFS, i don’t need to be patronised. seriously.
there’s an old English saying the goes like this; “All mouth, no trousers”. So far, this is all Natal is to me. show me the trousers and we’ll talk. until then? get off my internet.
So first I’ll admit that I didn’t read that whole column…
But I’m definitely on the same page as Lorin with the Natal/3d combination. After EBC 59 when Natal and 3D were discussed back-to-back, my first thought was ‘well what if we combine them’? Followed by Minority Report rippling through my train of throught. Although you did kind of lose me on the 180 swivel chair etc. I can see plenty of applications to the hardcore, and particularly for FPS games. I know nothing about MAG, but given the expected size of their game, here’s sort of an example:
How the hell is a team of 128 players going to communicate (assuming 256 players total, 2 teams)? It’s gonna be through voicechat, but 128 people on the same channel will be pointless. There’s going to be different channels, probably each squad will have their own. That’s fine, but how are you going to switch channels? What if you’re in command, and you need to broadcast to all channels? Waypoints, objectives, all that shit that makes the difference between an orgy of digital teabagging, and an actual game of tactics and communication…
Now, you could have all that handled by various controller buttons (or maybe you’ve got a thing for radial menus), or you could keep the controller for shooting and aforementioned teabagging, and you could have HUD icons. Your radio icon says you’re in Squad 5′s channel. Point at the icon, it expands a menu of available channels. Or if that’s too slow, make a flicking motion and it switches to the next one automatically.
The danger is in overdoing it I guess. If you start taking away things that make sense on a controller, then that’s no good.
Honestly though, I’m a PC gamer. To me, the mouse and keyboard is king, and I loathe the thought of playing my favourite games on what the rest of you consider hardcore. And just like my tools of choice are still around, it very likely isn’t the End of Days for the controller. Just a little perspective for ya.
Let’s just be practical about what we’ve seen and heard of Natal. All of the footage(be it press release, tech demo, or miscellaneous) and really take a look at it, it’s just a graphically enhanced version of what the Wii does. The same could be said of Sony’s motion thingy but all of the stuff both have shown us could be found on the Wii. People are falling over themselves in a blind stupor to do the same actions that they denounce the Wii for, Casual Gaming. The boys also made an excellent observation when DK talked about voice command function in Rainbow Six, some of these Innovations don’t last. When was the last PS3 title really used the Six Axis function? How many games use the Plastic shaped add-ons for the Wii controller (Wheel,tennis Racket, so on)? Does anyone use a peripheral past a few titles? The push for new tech is great but both Microsoft and Sony need to really work to make this last more than six months. If all we get is Enhanced Wii Sports it will just slowly fade away like the Power Glove.
The uses for it as described besides gaming could be pretty useful.
But as far as gaming I still don’t like it. Even a little integration into “regular” gaming will be unnecessary and to daft for my taste.
Yet if there still is the possibility to turn it off and your still able to play the hardcore games with just the controller then I don’t really care.
You’re full of crap, along with most X360 fanboys.
The hardware means JACK SH*T because if the games suck I don’t want to know. Its the same with the Wii, I know that lots of people have them and I pity them, but the controls are crap for nearly everything but silly party games that no real gamer wants to play. Now imagine that, but without the controllers; you’re still gesturing wildly at the screen and the game is still thinking you’re doing something you dont want to do (because at the end of the day its all in the hands of the game developers, and if the movements dont work properly, thats it)!
And all that crap about walking through your house with personal lights and stuff, realise that that technology has been around for like 30 years and nobody has it because its pointless! Why spend (as little as you say) $50 on a motion sensor for each room (probably going up to like $300 now arent ya?) when you can spend nothing on a freakin light switch that does the same goddamn thing!
Natal looks terrible and gimmicky and I can’t wait to see it fail and developers start thinking straight and making PC games again.
The quote from Greenburg I mentioned is as follows.
“I don’t know how well 3d will work in the home, I mean, you have the glasses, you have the phone, the weather outside, all kinds of distractions going on. It’s not like being in a theater”… This is one of any number of quotes you can google which, simply put, is moronic…
http://xboxevolved.e-mpire.com/article/No_Title/5988.html
This is an article spelling out how capable the 360 could be for 3D. Just FYI.
I want to see 3D with head tracking technology. Which the PS3 can do. We’ll see if the 360 could. Seems like way too much info for it to handle especially with the dedicated processing space to bring the price of natal down.
Anyway… Until I see an example instead of talk… It’s pointless discussing…
i posted this in the grab and pull episode but it really belongs here .
natal feedback
given the movie and game industry use millions of dollars worth of equipment to accuratly motion track people into there games, using special camera’s and affixing guys with a few hundred balls
how do microsoft plan to accuratly capture body movement with there proposed tech, when the wii controller an actual device is not accurate at all.
there is a similar cut down tech that was released on pc for flight sim and car sim buffs its called trackir which basically tracks a few balls mounted on a cap
, which is fairly accurate, and given the ps3 utilizes this method for there wand i presumme the playstation one will be more accurate.
my whole point is natal will not be nothing like there gimmick campaign ads and any one who knows better knows the wii device and its recent addon are far from accurate.
microsoft have no chance in hell in accuratly replicating those promo ads in real life and we will see what will become of the webcam with gimmick written all over it.
the key thing here is accuracy and how it will be implemented into games, flapping my arms around is something i am not keen on, the ps3 and trackir solutions are more bespoke and tailored for a certain way of play.
trackir- tracking head movement in game, looking around in cockpits of planes, looking around in cars.
the ps3 showcase of there wand is tailored to a certain play style.
natal has no speciality if it does what they proclaim to be and accuratly then good for them but i think its just media hype
“a family of 4 on a sofa a girl moving her arms in a circular motion while her tiny feeet operate make beleive pedals while her family sit beside her and it tracks only her moveent until her dipshit father gets up to replace a tire lol what a crock of shit”
and what kind of bespoke games will they come up with, hitting balls away with your arms and legs ,
all the videos i have seen with actors and staff have there arms and legs kicking hoping for somesort of effect in the game.
natal is a gimmick and is not tailor made for a certain style of play.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19376188&postcount=200
this game has been cancelled (from Joysiq) “Why isn’t Arkedo working on this game right now? Issues with recognition of minute finger movements — and localization concerns. “Yup, what can be understood as the victory sign in France, could be a terrible insult in the UK, for instance”
just have to highlight the “Issues with recognition of minute finger movements” bit there. i know it doesn’t mean it’ll never happen but that where they are right now.
I’ve left a post under one of the older podcasts that says the exact same thing as this write up, down to the Minority Report references. What gives?
Wow – great comments…and some strong words.
For the record, I am not a fanboy of either system (though that is a conveniently dismissive arguement). Nor do I have any affiliation with Microsoft or Sony or any investment whatsoever (emotionally or financially) in the success (or failure) of any aspect of either company’s product lines (software or hardware). I own both systems and play and like them equally.
That being said – it is true that the Xbox in its current form may not be compatible with 3D technology (Jinxstar).
My article, in all of the examples given, was merely trying to look on the bright side of the products possibilities in the face of an overwhelming amount of powerfully shouted negativity
(not you Jinxstar)
Likewise, I am not saying that the device does what Microsoft claims it does, because I have never seen it. But those who have seen it, say that it pretty much does. True or not….we will see.
As always thanks for the great discussion!!! Keep the comments comin’!
boysangur…..I assure you that I never saw that post and any similarity is purely coincidental.
Clearly, if you wrote something similar to this, you are a genius
Oh hey. I am just trying to be realistic. I have had my hopes really high for a lot of this gen and I have been let down by way more promises and too little delivery. I am a PS3 fanboy at heart. I actually sold my 360(3 RROD and a bunch of hard drive failures coupled with the worst customer service imaginable) a while ago so I could upgrade my PC, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.
The Ideas you have are great and I would love to see them but like many of the guys here said. Microsoft wants to promise people that a 50$ camera can do the same as 150,000$ cameras, 10 computers and actors pushed against blue screens with colored balls all over them… I’m just trying to be honest in how I feel. Natal will be nowhere near what is needed. With the rumors of it’s lag input, system specific dedicated processing power, limited spaces in most houses(Remember the commercial with the mom and daughter playing soccer and the daughter runs around the living room…. I know some rich people but nobody with a living room that big) in which to use it and not showing what the hardcore could actually do from the comfort of their own couch is kind of… Lackluster in feeling.
One day kids will be in a bubble with goggles on. They will be shooting zombies in game and feeling the blood splash on their faces and smelling the burnt flesh. That would be crazy wicked to have that tech too but truthfully it’s just not here yet.
All I have seen so far is a bunch of guys in jump suits play Burnout(Which was kinda… meh… I love that game, Just got my platinum recently but why would you want to stand their for hours and turn your hands…), Paint the elephant game and slap the ball down the hall.
I guess being able to “Point at the door you want to breech” is kinda cool but once again. 50$ is a steep price for that and the Dedicated processing power means that the games will never look as good as many on the system now. Think about Wii graphic rainbow six or something… Why not just play on the wii then anyway?.. I dunno.
Probably cause of how much I have been burned by MS this cycle or something but I just don’t believe any of what they say anymore.
I always do love your writing though. and Furious Gamer Radio is beyond brilliant. Keep it up and thanks.
[...] our community’s awesome ideas and even getting feedback in this week’s edition of Gaming Matters.Well, ending on a high note, let’s take a look at today’s Member BattleCry which comes [...]
lol, likewise
“Picture a home that turns your lights on and off as you walk through the house and at your pre-set light preferences not only because it recognizes where you are, but because it recognizes who you are from the shape of your body.” …ala Minority Report
Maybe not the best of examples of “the future”…Bill Gates has had a similar technology in his home for a while. I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft just took that tech futher with Natal.
I don’t understand why anyone would want to get up off of the couch while they were being entertained. People avoid movement at all costs whenever they are watching a movie or playing a game. I’m sure there are a few different people in the world that feel otherwise but in general people like their ass imprinted in their couch. I don’t feel like natal will do well for the hardcore audience, but the casual audience will eat natal up like someone coming off hunger strike. why is it that developers constantly want to change things that already work well. Natal saddens me to be perfectly blunt.